Using Google Apps for your domain

[Xagone]

there is a backup system to google apps, there is a transfert in and transfert out system too if you go elsewhere, i've used it.

[LuuQ]

Any webhosting server that is worth its money  offers IMAP, if not get another.
Btw. why you need IMAP when you can have Google Apps.

I don't quite understand what you mean with this. Do you mean that I can use the features of Google Apps without IMAP and have what I want?

Fear of change is never good, drives you in dependency. Never change a running system until it finally crashes and i can charge you 3000-5000$ for a complete data recovery. Ups, i forgot if somethings going wrong whith google there is no recovery.

You're right. Of course I didn't mean to drive it until it crashes. I just mean, that as long as it does what you want, you don't always have to make your life more complicated by always wanting to have more, although you don't need it. Surely you have to look after you system, so you don't have to spend up to 5000$ afterwards.

There is no reason to thrust em. They are like any other company they work for their own benefit and nothing else. They exist to make money out of you and your clients and  to fill the pockets of the pepole who own shares of Google.

You're right, but that's normal commercialism. Of course there are non-profit organisations or business, that provide open source products. But they also need money to survive. In the end, this is a very philosophical question. Who does not do anything for his own benefit? Even if you're giving life helping others, it's to find peace with yourself....but I think that's not the point in this thread.

I think with Google being so big and with it's big number of customers it's much more transparent than other companies.

Ok, then tell me where to find information on how google rates its search results. Please some exact information, not just guesses.  

I can't. And I don't care so much about that. I think I know what you want to refer to: that this is not really fair, that Googles search result ratings should be open to everyone. I agree with that.

And until now I never heard in the news that some customers were moaning about Google breaching data security concerning its mail services.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/cloud/2010/09/googles-internal-security-brea.php
or just google for  "Google breaching data security"

Sometimes we don't use the right keywords for searching with google. Thank you for that.

Most spam filters are scanning the content of a mail for information. Or is that not right?

If my mailfilters would do this my clients could get me to prison for up to 5 years. Scanning other people's private mail is not allowed in Germany. But Google can easily break the law cause their mailservers do not reside here in germany. So, cause they are such a big company they dont need to take care of such silly things like local laws. Do yo think they care a s*** about your privacy ?
Btw. Mailfilters scan the text for certain words or certain virus/spam fingerprints they never read the information itself and they never store pieces of information for later use.

I have to admit that it's a different between scanning content and storing content. Good point!

If your next question is why i can be sure that this mailfilter really does not do any nasty things thats the part where open source comes into play. Its cause of thousands of pepole who read through the source and found no incidence and many of em being professional software engineers. Most webhosting services are almost completely based on open source. Why dont google just make the source of their mailserver software open source.

That would have been my next question...  
But how can be sure that a company really uses this open source code or just says it does? (I don't know so much about web infrastructures and how it can be controlled or screened by authorities)

You are horribly wrong. Google traces your movement through doing searches while still logged on, through the use of Google analytics on many pages, through yourself using chrome or google Toolbar. The ads only trace you when you click em. Get firefox, please get it whithout google toolbar. Get a plugin like ghostery which blocks services like google analytics. Now set your firefox to private mode and there is not much left to trace you  . Especially its not posible to combine the few traces left whith your personal identity. Only with your IP and that one changes about every 24 hours on a normal Internet connection.

Ok. Thank your for enlightening me.
But I don't understand exactly why we should block everyone from gathering some pieces of information, that might be helpful for developers to make applications or web services better (see also paragraph further below)?

Ok, I don't really know which information is gathered, to what extent I'm giving my informations to the open world.

I think Google just gathers unpersonal information for making their service better. Why not? I like it when it works and when I have more useful features. It also helps developing a better "internet".

Read the Terms of Service, if you sign up for google mail you state thats its ok if google reads all your mail and uses it to make PERSONALISED advertisement. And no one knows for what else.

So we shouldn't send mails to people who use Google Mail, because our mails are automatically scanned and it's content stored? Or do they just scan the mails that we send? Do we know that?

And why in the world would having personalised advertisement make the web any better ?
Please explain!

I didn't want to refer to the advertisements I can see in my Google account. I just wanted to say that I don't care about them. They don't annoy me, so I don't mind whether they are there or not.

With "making a better internet" I wanted to say, that by gathering information from website visitors, like the screen resolution or the mouse movements, we know much about visitors behaviour and how we can use that to make a better user experience. Maybe your website structure is rubbish, but you only recognize it as you notice it when you study all your website statistics. Sorry for not explaining this properly.

And finally, absolutely no company gives you anything for free. They exist to make money, so if they tell you its free, there is no question that they are lying. And do you really thrust a company thats lying the first instance they say hello to you?

Even if you pay 100 $ a month for the services a company offers, they can still be lying. Of course it's more obvious with a company that offers "free" services. But obviously the advertisement market seems to work and people seem to make enough with it.

So, I think this quite an interesting topic to talk about and I want to thank you for taking time to talk about that.
What I am now interested in is, which webhosting services you use, that provide the discussed points above?

If I'm putting the pieces together, I would come to the following positive and negative about using Google:

+ no (visible?) costs
+ IMAP
+ Sharing calendars
+ easy to handle
+ much space
+ quite fast

- no backups
- what about data security?
- stores information
- we don't know what they do with the stored information?
- advertisement (also personalized, based upon stored information)
- no open source code
- few transparency
- do they do what they say they do?


Would you agree with that? Anything else to add?

Best regards,

LuuQ

[Sgt.Nops]

I agree whith NorHei

Lets go for details:

- With Google Apps I can use IMAP, that's something my client prefers and which my server doesn't offer.

Any webhosting server that is worth its money  offers IMAP, if not get another.
Btw. why you need IMAP when you can have Google Apps.

- It's very easy to sync Calendars. I think this would work also with exchange servers,

Yeah, you are right its comfortable.

but in this matter I grew up with Google Apps and I currently really don't want to change ("never change a running system")

Fear of change is never good, drives you in dependency. Never change a running system until it finally crashes and i can charge you 3000-5000$ for a complete data recovery. Ups, i forgot if somethings going wrong whith google there is no recovery.

- I don't have all the traffic that's generated by mails on my server. Google can offer a service that's much faster

Again, you should consider changing your hosting company.

And yes, I told my clients that Google is criticised for gathering information from their clients. But I first trust Google than any other software I don't know that they provide the data security they promise.

There is no reason to thrust em. They are like any other company they work for their own benefit and nothing else. They exist to make money out of you and your clients and  to fill the pockets of the pepole who own shares of Google.

I think with Google being so big and with it's big number of customers it's much more transparent than other companies.

Ok, then tell me where to find information on how google rates its search results. Please some exact information, not just guesses.

IAnd until now I never heard in the news that some customers were moaning about Google breaching data security concerning its mail services.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/cloud/2010/09/googles-internal-security-brea.php
or just google for  "Google breaching data security"

Most spam filters are scanning the content of a mail for information. Or is that not right?

If my mailfilters would do this my clients could get me to prison for up to 5 years.
Scanning othere pepoles private mail is not allowed in Germany. But Google can easily break the law cause their mailservers do not reside here in germany. So, cause they are such a big company they dont need to take care of such silly things like local laws. Do yo think they care a s*** about your privacy ?
Btw. Mailfilters scan the text for certain words or certain virus/spam fingerprints they never read the information itself and they never store pieces of information for later use..

If your next question is why i can be sure that this mailfilter really does not do any nasty things thats the part where open source comes into play. Its cause of thousands of pepole who read through the source and found no incidence and many of em being professional software engineers. Most webhosting services are almost completely based on open source. Why dont google just make the source of their mailserver software open source.
     

f you're paranoid(I don't assume that you are), you shouldn't even open a browser, Google can see every mouse movement you make through ads which are placed on a website. Or am I wrong?

You are horribly wrong. Google traces your movement through doing searches while still logged on, through the use of Google analytics on many pages, through yourself using chrome or google Toolbar. The ads only trace you when you click em.   Get firefox , please get it whithout google toolbar. Get a plugin like ghostery which blocks services like google analytics. Now set your firefox to private mode and there is not much left to trace you  . Especially its not posible to combine the few traces left whith your personal identity. Only whith your IP and that one changes about every 24 hours on a normal Internet connection.

I think Google just gathers unpersonal information for making their service better. Why not? I like it when it works and when I have more useful features. It also helps developing a better "internet".

Read the Terms of Service, if you sign up for google mail you state thats its ok if google reads all your mail and uses it to make PERSONALISED advertisement. And noone knows for whatelse.

And why in the world would having personalised advertisement make the web any better ?
Plase explain!


And finally, absolutely no company gives you anything for free. They exist to make money, so if they tell you its free, there is no question that they are lying. And do you really thrust a company thats lying the first instance they say hello to you?

[LuuQ]

Yes NorHei, you're right. My web server offers mailboxes and I could create plenty of them. But there are several reasons why I use Google Apps:

- With Google Apps I can use IMAP, that's something my client prefers and which my server doesn't offer.
- It's very easy to sync Calendars. I think this would work also with exchange servers, but in this matter I grew up with Google Apps and I currently really don't want to change ("never change a running system")
- I don't have all the traffic that's generated by mails on my server. Google can offer a service that's much faster

And yes, I told my clients that Google is criticised for gathering information from their clients. But I first trust Google than any other software I don't know that they provide the data security they promise.

I think with Google being so big and with it's big number of customers it's much more transparent than other companies. And until now I never heard in the news that some customers were moaning about Google breaching data security concerning its mail services.

Most spam filters are scanning the content of a mail for information. Or is that not right? If you're paranoid (I don't assume that you are), you shouldn't even open a browser, Google can see every mouse movement you make through ads which are placed on a website. Or am I wrong?

I think Google just gathers unpersonal information for making their service better. Why not? I like it when it works and when I have more useful features. It also helps developing a better "internet".

Of course I'm glad that Google offers free service. In return of that, they place Ads in your account. But it doesn't really annoy me. So who cares? Just because it's free it doesn't mean it's bad.

I like it when we can discuss things like that. I myself hope that I'm not wrong (false information) with any of the point named above.


Best regards,

LuuQ

[NorHei]

Sorry, but if you got your own server why you should use google to manage your maill accounts?
All serious  webspace packages i know got tons of mailboxes included .

Btw, if you use i for company accounts i hope you told your clients that google is searching their mails for usefull information ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail#Criticism

Keep in mind that a big company like google never ever give you anything for free.

[Xagone]

I suggest to Almost all my client to go with Google Apps, i'm using it myself for my 4 companies.

[LuuQ]

Hi there

I didn't read much about Google Apps here, so I think it's worth a post.
Using Google Apps you can host your e-mails from your own domain.

An example:
You want to use Google Apps for your domain called example.com.
After you registered for Google Apps you have to verify that you're the owner
of the domain example.com. You can do this by adding a CNAME record to
your DNS settings or much easier by uploading a HTML defined by Google on
your website.

After that you have to add some MX records to your DNS settings of your domain,
so that Google can manage your mails.

You can add the email accounts you like (up to 50 accounts for free).
The clou is now that your account won't be luuq@gmail.com, but luuq@example.com.

That has the advantage (behind many more) that you don't have the email traffic on your own webserver
and that you have a good spam filter behind it. And you can use it all for free.

Everything is documented really good, so it's also easy to understand and to setup for beginners.


Get started with Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/group/index.html


The only issue I had was, that I couldn't send forms with PHP mail() from my website to my Google Apps email account.
But I found the solution in the following two links:
http://www.google.com/support/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=55299
http://www.vpsguides.com/2009/03/configuring-plesk-to-support-an-external-email-server-like-gmail/ (just for the ones using Plesk as webserver administration tool, otherwise you could run a Google search using "Can't receive mail from a web form + Name.of.your.administration.tool")


Hope you like it too

LuuQ