WebsiteBaker Stactic Pages?

[WebBird]

It's really hard to explain what "static" means, particularly in the context of a CMS. I think this discussion has shown that there are many different interpretations, and all of them are correct in one way.

In fact, there are also many different definitions of what CMS means. Some say that workflow has to be part of the CMS to be a CMS, but WB does not have a real workflow. Some say that storing content of nearly every format (Doc, PDF, XML, whatever) is what makes a CMS, so WB is not a CMS.

I think the most common definition of "static" in the context of a web page is that it means "delivered as stored". When a visitor calls a "page", the webserver reads a file stored on the disk and delivers it "as is". It is _not_ interpreting something, it is _not_ calling a script, it is _not_ doing anything else but reading a file and sending it to the client.

This said, every content delivered by a CMS is dynamic.

I think this is what most of the posters meant. Anyway, the understanding of "static" may be different from different points of view.

[Argos]

Nice summary Klaus.

Fburger: I am sorry if I came across as arrogant, that was not my intention. But in my opinion it was just a little discussion about definition, and in a discussion you can say to the other "I think you're wrong about this or that". Can't you? It's not meant to be arrogant, I assure you. Anyway, Klaus answered it pretty well. This cache system is not there yet, but who knows what the future will bring. It would certainly be a nice addition.

One remark about open source versus commercial. You imply that open source software has per definition more security risks than commercial software. I doubt that (without being arrogant). It all depends on the quality of the coding (and other factors), not on the type of software. Maybe open source is even safer, because many more people are working on it. Just think of Microsoft that is patching its products constantly. Very commercial and very not open source, yet security holes are constanly discovered and abused by hackers   As far as I know, WB does a very decent job with regards to security.

[kweitzel]

Hi Brian,

please do not get upset about a simple definition. Just one thing though:

You are talking about the content of the page (does not change or at least not often), Argos is talking about the technology used to create a page. In that definition a static page sits readily assembled on the filesystem while a "dynamic" page is assembled on the fly.

In WB there where discussions about a caching system which assembles a page and then stores it on the harddisc for a more speedy delivery (like a static HTML page). When a page is changed in the admin backend the pre-assembled (cached HTML page) page is then recreated.

So, in some ways you where both right.

Hope this explains it a bit better ...

cheers

Klaus

[deb01]

well let me say that I have found another purpose for these static pages.

Due to security reasons and for stability I would like to render all websites of my projects on my server and copy them to webspace without PHP support.

Therefore I wouldn't have to care about security flaws (=plain HTML) and would not have any problems with a MySQL Server that goes down or anything like that. Additionally, plain HTML webspace is cheaper

Of course I can't have an online shop, a contact form or anything.

Maybe something could be implemented in one of next versions. I think this would be a great feature.

[bfuller]

 (Quote) Yeah, it's a bit off topic indeed, although it seems that the information bfuller came up with just confirms my explanation. He just misinterprets it in my opinion. The info he quoted is not fully correct either. But ok, let's not dwell on that.

Argos I know you may know WebSite Baker and even help code some of it, but the information I quoted was not mine and I think it was from a little better authority then you are when it comes to web design, but then again that is my opinion!!! 

I am a bit curious how one could be off topic in the Guest and Off Topic Forum?

Now I see where a lot of the worry about the future of WebsiteBaker stems from.  If Ryan was having to work with that kind of arrogance, I can see how things where hard to get done. (My way or the highway - I know it all never works.)


Good Idea crnogora this wasn't going anywhere.  Just have to agree to disagree.
To be honest most of what I was trying to find out I have picked up on my own, by just putting WebsiteBaker in a sub domain and just playing with it.
What I am trying to do is make a store front for a Jeep and Ford Dealership - Parts & Accessories Dept.
What I have done to far is use Web Site Bakers Editor to write the description of the parts and accessories the order number, cost ,picture of the item (That being what I call Static Page) Doesn't change!!! Only Admin. can make changes to that part of the site. (Shopping Cart is only thing that requires a data base and that is handled within the shopping cart)
Once I have all the item description in, I use a commercial Shopping Cart to write a script that can be put into the page to add things to the shopping cart (would never use an Open Source Shopping Cart because of the security risks)
Plan to add a Live Help Program and a Comments Page (guest book) that will require a Data Base. But I have not started that yet. But from what I see so far I don't think it is going to be a program. WebsiteBaker is a nice simple to use CMS!!!

I am sorry if I offended anyone that was not my attention, but felt I was being attacked by some when I only came for help.  I appreciate the first few replies in the thread, I think they were being very good for a  community forum that really is there to help

This ends this Thread!!!

[Argos]

Ok, lets just break this discussion, and just simply tell us what you want...

Do you want to create a content, like text so visitors can just read it, or you want more interaction with them, like online shop or something..

Yeah, it's a bit off topic indeed, although it seems that the information bfuller came up with just confirms my explanation. He just misinterprets it in my opinion. The info he quoted is not fully correct either. But ok, let's not dwell on that.

His question was if WB creates static pages, because he may want to use it for a shopping cart and he is concerned about SE scores.

Well, WB does not create static pages, and its only decent shopping cart module is very basic compared with dedicated shopping cart software.

The dynamic pages of WB can obtain high SE scores though, so don't be afraid that WB sites will not show up or cannot score high in Google etc.

[crnogorac081]

Ok, lets just break this discussion, and just simply tell us what you want...

Do you want to create a content, like text so visitors can just read it, or you want more interaction with them, like online shop or something..

[bfuller]

Argos

Not so sure I am confused as you might think, just think you and I differ on termology. In my modification to original post you will note one of the developers of Word Press wrote the article I attached, about how to make static pages in word press. (And yes I understand if you use scripts to make the page do things it uses a data base for that, but the page content can be static.)
Word Press can be used as a CMS not just a blogging tool. (Matter of fact have built a site using that developers techniques and it works just fine. (The biggest problem I find is the learning curve for Word Press. Web Site Baker is  a bit easier to learn and when showing others that work on the site the easier the better), which is why I inquiring about Web Site Baker.

The definition of Static and DYNAMIC WEB PAGEs Pages that I found

STATIC WEB PAGE: A static web page shows the required information to the viewer, but do not accept any information from the viewer.

DYNAMIC WEB PAGE: A dynamic web page displays the information to the viewer and also accepts the information from the user
Railway reservation, Online shopping etc. are examples of dynamic web page.

Dynamic vs Static web Pages
How Dynamic Web Pages Rank in Search Engines Compared to Static Web Pages
This article will explain the differences between dynamic web pages vs static web pages and why dynamic web pages can't be indexed in the search engines.
The internet used to consist solely of HTML or static web pages, i.e., web pages that are not changed before being displayed in a web browser. However, now dynamic web pages are the norm when a shopping cart is involved because the software loads the category and then collects the product searched for and assembles everything as the browser loads the page. Those pages are not usually set up as HTML and may change with every search thus the search engines will never see the contents. Software for shopping carts often doesn't allow unique titles either which further hampers keyword ranking.


Dynamic pages
In order to generate dynamic pages it requires a script program such as ASP, PHP or CMF to generate instructions to call up and construct the dynamic pages after the surfer inputs some data in a search program. Dynamic pages often use characters in their URL which prevent the search engines from reading and indexing the data on that page, i.e., "&id=". They also often utilize Session IDs in the URLs which, if not properly written, will prevent search engines from following links on that page (or cause an inflated page count) and those pages don't gain PR (Page Rank) from Google either. If you are familiar with using HTACCESS you can set up redirects for dynamic URLs by using a tool to rewrite URLs.

There are other ways of getting around this but it requires special software and extra time to do it which raises expenses for the client. Dynamic web pages can be used in a catalog or database (as long as these products are also displayed in static pages) but they should never be used on the main pages of the website. You can find more info on session IDs on WebMasterWorld's forum: Can Google crawl ASPX pages?

Static Pages
Static pages are already established and are not drawn up from bits and pieces from a search query. Until recently search engines could not surf dynamic pages and thus items on such sites were not listed in search engines but today some search engines, like Google and Yahoo, are able to do so. However it takes longer for them to index all the data and if you have set up similar static pages it can cause supplemental results penalties unless one or the other has a noindex meta tag on it.
Databases
Most large e-commerce sites produce product pages from their databases that are dynamic pages. You can recognize a dynamic URL because it will have question marks, equal signs and ampersands in it which tells the database management software which item to draw up in the page as it loads. They don't actually have these pages set up on their site, they are called up (dynamically generated) from their database as you request information in a form. These dynamic pages may not produce any PR (position rank in Google) because Google only attributes PR to static pages.

Dynamic Pages to HTML
Dynamic pages can be turned into static pages so the search engines will list the pages but here again you need to be concerned with duplicate content penalties or you can also ban the search engine from the database version via the robots.txt file. You also need to consider if this technology, and it's problems, is compatible with your designing budget.

[Argos]

Bob, you seem to be confused about static versus dynamic. In fact is has nothing to do with CMS versus weblog or what have you. It's much simpler:

Dynamic = the content is stored in a database, which is taken from the database at the moment the page is shown in a browser. The code (php, asp, etc) in that page/section/widget/blog tells the database at that very moment what data it needs to feed to the browser. Many times the content consists of multiple content items, stored at different tables in the database, but all shown together at the moment the browser (website visitor) wants to see it. So everything a visitor sees in his browser is put together dynamically at that very moment, but the page and the source code you can see in your browser doesn't exsist as such in 'regular' form. It can't be stored locally on your pc for that reason.

Static = html page with both code and content together in 1 content item (the "page"), without any dynamic connection to a database. What you see in the browser is all present in the page, that can be stored locally as well.

That said, every CMS has dynamic output. That's the core principle of a CMS. Sometimes a CMS can export certain content in a static form (for example regular pages that don't change very often), but WB doesn't have such a function.

A static page being a page that doesn't change.

No. You can create a page in WB and not change it for 10 years. It's still a dynamic page, because the content is pulled dynamically from the database every time the page is shown in a browser. In contrast, you can create a static page with HTML and content and CSS and javascript etc, and change it 10 times a day (manually), and it still is a static page.

[bfuller]

Please read my modification to original post.

Bob

[mickpage]

Fine

Please use the contact form to check in:

Done!

[erpe0812]

Fine

Please use the contact form to check in:
http://start.websitebaker2.org/en/join-the-team.php

rgds

erpe

[mickpage]

I will be going on holiday for a couple of weeks from tomorrow, but if you need a volunteer to check and/or correct the spellings and grammar (English only) on the WebsiteBaker.org site then I don't mind helping out later.

[erpe0812]

Or give access to mickpage,
maybe he wants to correct it 

Or volunteer for a error finder............

rgds

erpe

[Argos]

Bob, you should take care of your spelling. Sloppy writing results in misunderstandings

Candidat
wich
recommanded

all found on the WebsiteBaker.org home page 

Let's hope the person(s) who have access to those texts read this post 

[WebBird]

You can always create "static" pages with tools like wget or WinHTTrack. So, the CMS don't have to do this for you. But be careful - many things won't work on a static page. (For it is static, you know. )

Examples:
* Access counter
* Shopping cart
* Banner rotation
* ...

See here for an explanation of what a CMS is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_management_system

[mickpage]

Bob, you should take care of your spelling. Sloppy writing results in misunderstandings

Candidat
wich
recommanded

all found on the WebsiteBaker.org home page 

[deb01]

statistics are around there. It should not be a problem to find a suitable one.

As for "static pages" - I also look for a solution like this. The one that were discussed in the forum are more a scary hack and also not working anymore (changed files in 2.7?).

I know that it would be a pain as soon as one would like to include a contact form or anything else like that but nevertheless customers asking for static pages (if they are generated by a CMS doesn't matter).

I believe keeping all drawbacks in mind it would be a good idea to publish in a stage system (CMS/PHP) and transfer the webpage to a hosting working with static pages (HTML) -> production system.

[Argos]

Bob, you should take care of your spelling. Sloppy writing results in misunderstandings and failed search results. Instead of "static" you wrote "stactic" and "staic".

I must admit that I don't really understand your question either... WB is a CMS, so it creates pages dynamically.

[crnogorac081]

Well,

You can make a website with WB and not change the content or update it at all... if you mean "static" like that 

cheers

[bfuller]

This is my understanding of a static web site page.


(As defined in Wikipedia)

A static web page is a web page that always comprises the same information in response to all download requests from all users. Contrast with Dynamic web page.

It displays the same information for all users, from all contexts, providing the classical hypertext, where navigation is performed through "static" documents.

Bob

[Stefek]

Hello Bob.

Do you mean static or statistics?

WebsiteBaker generates "kind of" static pages.
But it is not really static, because the contents are stored in a database.

The other point of misunderstanding: Store = Shopping Software?
If so, what its name?

Regards,
Stefek

[bfuller]

Excuse me?

[Luisehahne]

Try this. Is a Pagestatistc with showing registered user, with lats login. Its a Admintool

Dietmar

[gelöscht durch Administrator]

[bfuller]

Does WebsiteBaker make stactic pages? Is this more for making Blogs than Staic Web Pages?

Looking for something that can be used for a medium size Store Front.

Bob
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First thing, let me apologize for my spelling and grammar errors in the original post. I was in a bit of a hurry at the time of the post and I guess a whole lot lazy in checking the post. With  that said:

I have been looking at several CMS and "Quote" Blogging/CMS programs to redo several store fronts I have at present. (Not looking for a Shopping Cart Program with catalog. The Shopping Cart I presently use allows me to use the CMS to write the code back to the shopping cart order directory.

I don't claim to be any authority on CMS or Blogging Programs and is why I came to the forum to ask the question " Will, WebsiteBaker make a site in Static Pages"

After doing a little more research on the different programs available to design web sites, I come to find that it depends on the argot of the community that designs the programs, and since I spent the fast majority of my time with WordPress and Drupal I picked up a little of the argot that is used in their community.

Think I may have found my answer to the original question, but I will throw out what I think I have learned and get some feed back from the community.

A static page being a page that doesn't change. To have items on the page that does not change unless the administrator changes them. Example: Like Items for sale. (Unlike a dynamic web site, like a blogg that changes with visitors leaving comments and is intended to have changes made by visitors to the site)

I guess some could argue the point that having a script to put something in a shopping cart makes the page not a static page.

It looks to me that WebsiteBaker does this being a true CMS, were a program like WordPress and Drupal is used more for a blogging software, but can be used as a CMS as I found this article about WordPress.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How to Make a Wordpress Static Web Site
Posted on May 30th, 2008 by admin
It is really easy to create static Wordpress sites.
Find a nice template you like. There are many sites with free Wordpress templates. Go to Google and do a search on " Free Wordpress Templates" or "Free Wordpress Themes".
If you don't need things in the sidebar like calenders or archives etc, a simple solution is to go to design&gtwidgets and by adding widgets you can make the sidebar look exactly as you like. This way you don't have to touch any code.
Add the all in one seo plugin
Add the privacy policy plugin. Optional, but I always have a privacy policy on my sites.
Add a sitemap plugin if you want. Good for Search Engines
Add a Google Sitemap.
----------------------
I hope I clarified my original question and that everyone will please except my apology for my laziness and spelling errors of the original post.

Bob