An Open Discussion on WebsiteBaker's future

[kweitzel]

nope ... not from me. but check out the project server and you can see the timeline (activity).

cheers

Klaus

[Stefek]

But we are not far from realease.

Hello Klaus,

sounds good.

Any suggestions in meanings of time (days, weeks, months)?

Regards..

[kweitzel]

Still working on it (not myself though). But we are not far from realease.

Anyway the latest Developmentrelease can always be found here: http://project.websitebaker2.org/browser/trunk At the bottom of the page you find a Download Link.

cheers

Klaus

[Attila]

no news...? 

[Attila]

Any news about WB 2.8?

[Uthred]

Hi,
just a comment to the WB Team structure.

The WB Team Chart gives a very good overview how the WB Team is organized. It could be good for self-marketing reasons to show it on the WB Homepage and not somewhere deep in the forum.

I also wonder, if it makes sense to introduce also a column for a Test-Team to show that testing is fix anchored in the WB philosophy.
e.g.
-Test Management
-- Core Test
-- Core Addon Test
-- ext. Addon Test (Moduls, ...)

cheers
Uthred

[Stefek]

Dear all, Ryan.

As you was able to read some months ago ...

One of the persons really interested in a Leading Position (as you maybe assumed) is me.
I aim to take responsibility into the Marketing of WebsiteBaker (primarily the Brand of WebsiteBaker and External Public Relation(ships))
This is only one of the Sections where we will need Leaders for.
I hope we can tell more in the next days.

... I was really interested to take more responsibility for the project.
But due to my duties I won't be able to invest to much time into it. Recently we opened a new Bowlingcenter (#4) where I am responsible for all the brand and promotion activities. My time is very limited.
And it would not be honest if I take this position "occupied".

I will still work FOR the community and will do some work (as you recently have seen my additions to Mr-Fan's Portable).
I will mostly do something as designer. Short term contributions. Some nice stuff.

We have built a dev team and are at the moment in internal discussions about common versions of WB. As soon as we have results, we will make an announcement. In this announcement we also post where an what additional help is needed. (f.e. a specialist of javascript programming is needed and translations of new language variables are required).

The above is something I am really glad about.
This gives hope that the WB Project will have a future.

I also want to thank all the people who helped me in the past. Especially: BerndJM, Thorn, Ruud, Chio, Aldus - this guys really helped me to understand the WB structure and they also helped me in some specific points depending on my commercial work - so thank you.
I also would like to thank all the Module Developers for their work. They make WB CMS feauterrich. That's what we all are depending on. So I owe every single one of you.
And of course to Ryan, his genius and this inspiring CMS. You set a beautifull cornerstone for all our common activities.

WebsiteBaker.
"Best things in life are simple"

Regards,
Christian M. Stefan
"Stefek"

[i2Paq]

I've been reading this topic and related ones for the last hour and at first I was sceared my pants off.

After all the information had settled down I'm still having second thoughts about the splitup between Ryan and WB.
I'm not saying it's something bad but still, if the founder leaves his house, what will happen to it and it's inhabitants?

Lets hope the future will show that it was a right decission.

I wish the WB-project and PlatformRAD all the best.

[ruebenwurzel]

Hello,

just for information. The most new teamy ar buildet. At the moment we are in the process of defining our targets. As soon as this are clear, we will make an anouncement. So i only can beg you to be patient for a (short) time.

You can be shure, work on marketing is in progress. And as far as i can see it will go the right way.

Matthias

[zonker720]

We could have a fantastic platform and then build a community of designers, marketers, and developers around it all profiting by helping companies successfully market themselves on the web and develop tools to help them run their businesses. There is incredible demand for this even in these difficult times.

Can the management team respond to this please?

I can see that the code is going to be sorted out, that is what WB community is good at, but what about the marketing? There are a lot of problems, which I see as huge opportunities to grow the popularity of the product. Is anyone looking at this?

[ruebenwurzel]

Hello,

just a short information.

We have built a dev team and are at the moment in internal discussions about common versions of WB. As soon as we have results, we will make an announcement. In this announcement we also post where an what additional help is needed. (f.e. a specialist of javascript programming is needed and translations of new language variables are required).

So this announcement comes for shure within January 2009. Please be patient.

In the meanwhile you could help testing all Modules wich have no Final status. Take a look on AMASP Projekt and you will see there are more then 100 not ready modules.

Matthias

[pja]

... then why don't you think in the lines of: "What can I do to help WebsiteBaker"? There is a lot that you could do I bet ...

Klaus,

I'm sure there is things that we could do but the total and utter lack of leadership and direction make it difficult.

From my position (down here in sunny Batemans Bay Australia, I don't have the faintest idea what's happening and what assistance people want.  Are there moves to get WB going again?  Is there to be a community committee?  What do you want from us?

I agree with previous comments about the basic soundness and quality of WB so lets move forward and keep it alive.  Please someone tell us what's happening.

Regards,
Peter

Regards,
Peter

[kweitzel]

Hi TR1 ... then why don't you think in the lines of: "What can I do to help WebsiteBaker"? There is a lot that you could do I bet ...

cheers

Klaus

[Stefek]

Hello TR1.

I (...) think it is a shame that things are going this way.

It's not the best situation.
   
But it is in the nature of life: people have new interests when the time progresses.
New projecs new challenges.

So why look back and blame people for their own decisions?
Has no advantages.
Let us look ahead.

Let us look at what we have (great CMS) and make the best out in 2009.

Best Regards,
Stefek

[tr1]

Obviously I am new here but think it is a shame that things are going this way.

[Stefek]

I am confused about where this is going.
...
What I see now is a lack of vision and leadership for either project. I don't know where they are going, how they will benefit me the "customer" and what they want me to do to help. Where are these projects going?

...
I understand that is a lot to digest, but I really think someone needs to step up and explain how we got here and where we are going. I am happy to devote time and money to making this better, but I am not going to follow anyone down a silly strategic or vindictive path.

Who can explain?

Hello Bradnickel,
sorry for answering that late, but I do.

It's hard to say where all this is going because there is no annoncement done for this.
Since three months there is no Leadership in sight, but I don't think that there is no vision at all.

I think that threre are few different points of view - mostly the developers have to make decisions how to work with each other.

But you must understand, that at this moment there is some confusion caused by the entire situation: Ryan has for long time worked as developer not being involved in "active leading". Now he seems to disapear completly from the WebsiteBaker Project.

So now there is - for the Developers - the time to see what they want to achieve with WebsiteBaker (and they are still active and they have a lot of ideas).
And for the Leading Structure - there is of course a need to clean up the "lines" (or to establish them) so they will result in Product, Documantation, Marketing, Usage, Forum, Support.

Let us see in the next time. The New Year is comming.
I am sure, that WebsiteBaker will make it's way.
Just see the released Modules in the last time, so you will know what I am talking about.
WebsiteBaker is still alive.

Best Regards and all the best for 2009!
Stefek

[bradnickel]

My credentials:
I've used WB for a few years now and love its simplicity.
I've paid to have some cool modules developed that give WB more commercial appeal for a corporate marketing department like cloning pages for the purpose of testing different advertising landing pages and a much more powerful forms modules to give depts true communication capabilities. We of coursed released those to the community.
Resume

I am confused about where this is going. My dream for WB would be for it to truly focus on becoming a marketing tool for corporations and building an open source services/support based business model around it. Having run marketing for technology and other types of companies for 23 , I can see the need. We could have a fantastic platform and then build a community of designers, marketers, and developers around it all profiting by helping companies successfully market themselves on the web and develop tools to help them run their businesses. There is incredible demand for this even in these difficult times.

What I see now is a lack of vision and leadership for either project. I don't know where they are going, how they will benefit me the "customer" and what they want me to do to help. Where are these projects going? As developers, I am concerned about the "business" focus of those developing the project. Ultimately the web for businesses is a marketing tool. If that is not part of either vision, then I may need to think about something else entirely for WB or use another simple to use platform like Word Press.

I understand that is a lot to digest, but I really think someone needs to step up and explain how we got here and where we are going. I am happy to devote time and money to making this better, but I am not going to follow anyone down a silly strategic or vindictive path.

Who can explain?

[deeve007]

Have to admit that this discussion doesn't thrill me one bit. Here I was hoping for the focus being on everyone improving the core product and - just as important - developing new modules to extend and improve the overall functionality and usefulness of WB.

Instead, I see the plan to divide resources on two separate projects. This uncertainly means that the WB versions may continue to be a nice product for hobbyists, but for offering to clients I think it means a move to CMS Made Simple, Wordpress or a similar more stable product, which I am already doing as a result of this discussion.

Best of luck guys, just wish it could have been worked out better.

[mathetos]

Wow, this is really quite shocking. I've been a WB user for several years now. Unfortunately, I've only been able to contribute in a very limited way. I have contributed to the documentation, and ported an open source template.... that's about it. But my experience in contirbuting was overall very positive. I felt like the team was functioning and responding to me and gave me guidance, especially ruebenwurtzel and doc. I also couldn't image the WB forums without pcwacht. You guys have made this community what it is.

So the shocking thing was to come here today and read this entire post and see that most of the somewhat bitter replies were made by people who have not been around very long. We've all been waiting for WB3 for a long time... sure. But none of us would be here at all if Ryan hadn't had a great idea and ran with it.

Personally, I will be checking both platformRAD and wb for the next few months to figure out which new developments will be more beneficial to me in the long-run. I have a suspicion that it will be platformRAD, because despite his relative absense, Ryan's vision for a strong and reliable CMS is what brought us all here in the first place.

We'll see how it goes from here on out...

[pja]

Just a little background; I have been helping out with a substantial not-for-profit project where we provide website hosting to member organisations.  By default we configure sub-domains with WordPress.  At the time it was the best solution for a number of reasons (and probably is still very good).  However, in the interim I have discovered WebsiteBaker and think it is much easier to use.  Our needs are primarily for a CMS NOT for a blog that can be used as a CMS.  WB also looks much easier for folks with little IT experience to maintain.

I am also looking at expanding my time into developing and supporting websites for local small businesses.

I have also contemplated offering my services as a learning PHP coder and (like another correspondent) as a competent documenter.

Now this brings me to this discussion.  I have read all the inputs and I must say I am confused.  I guess the basic question is why should I commit valuable time to WB given that its future seems to be so uncertain.  Issues like these worry me:

• What's going to happen to the development of the current version?
• Will there be a version 2.8, 2.9, etc. etc.?
• More importantly, will there be a version 3.x and if there is what's the over-lap with Ryan's new project?
• With Ryan moving on; who owns the intelectual property in WB?
• What happens to all the WB effort when Ryan gets his new product ready? Do we all just dump effort on WB and move across?  What do we do for our customers (paying and non-paying)?

None of these sorts of issues have been answered in this thread so far.
I'm confused!
Regards,
Peter  and 

[Lotus]

Hi, cant believe I missed this thread either, got a few things on my mind.

As the WB2 core is getting older its enevitable that it needs to be updated using newer, more effishient and optimized technologies to meet tomorrows demand. Some has stated that WB2 is not stable and secure, that its an ongoing project of pachwork. This frightens me as we use WB as a base to build custermer solutions upon. To cast away Ryans efforts is a bad choise, this is the man with the right visions.

It it would be any forking, I think it should be WB 2.8 that would turn into something else and the PlatformRAD would be WB3.

A successfull app is for me:

• An advaced core (fast, stable, secure, etc).
• Simple and beautiful admin that anyone can use with hidden more powerful administration capabilities.
• Lots of possibilities when making templates corporating features
• Lots of configurable mods in every category (news, media gallery, download gallery, forum etc)
• As little demands as possible to PHP and MySQL configurations (safe_mode etc.)
• Easy to install (or hard at first till you know the trick)
• ..and maybe a few obvious and less obvious things..

Any way, as WB is a great app I think the name is somewhat no good. What about something more corporate like PlatformRAD? I agree with those who think its hard to know what is going on in the community. Contests, great modules and snippets, great code who solves problems in the template, templates, reporting bugs, new announcements..its all hidden somehow in this forum. The AMASP project is great but why not incorporate it in the .org site?

[marccouture]

Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread...  I wish all the best to Ryan in his new endeavor. 

That said, as an end-user leading smaller projects mainly in the non-for-profit and educational sectors, I will be definitely sticking with WB, regardless of the direction development might take, as long as it remains the most user-friendly CMS available.  WB's core is not a problem from my point of view... but the availability of extensions (modules, themes, etc) and resources to code them is.  For example, I still cannot for the life of me understand how WB does not have its own forum module.  I think WB has to integrate more "Web 2.0" functionality to remain relevant against other solutions.

I can only imagine how hard it can be to juggle between "featuritis" and "WB needs to be so easy my braindead sister can manage her web site on her own".  WB is the closest to achieving this balance, while running under so-called "weak" leadership.  Damn, if all my projects worked as well as WB development has, my boss would call me a genius...

Cheers.

[kweitzel]

Hi Adrian2k7,

nice comments there ... why don't you get in contact with ruebenwurzel or me to help out on the documentation side of things?

cheers

Klaus

[Adrian2k7]

Hi,

I really don't know why Ryan is "leaving" with a "new" project.

Originally he developed WB 3, I think WB is its own brand. Now he changes the name and went away from this only to get out of this stupid discussion (?).
But of course he still developing WB3, just with another name. So expect, when Ryan is ready all the WB using people will switch to his new platform, because everybody knows it is truly WB3.

WB is really easy to use and easy to extend, but it is still not the best in engineering. 2.8+ makes no sense to me until it's core is not up2date. I think it's okay like it is. There only have to be bug fixes. All the energy you guys have should be concentrated on WB3.

Wait until Ryan has his new platform ready and then jump on board there. Or go on thinking making your own WB3. It's okay that he wants to develop the core alone. I'm sure he will make it. While that you could clean up this webiste and make the documentation(for 2.7) something that could be called documentation.

[ipfelkofer]

Hi,

I'm using WB since more than a year and think, it is a very good CMS.

Now, I would like to support the further development of WB as muuch as I can. That means, I'm not a programmer but I have a lot of experience in documentation and user point of view. I used to run customer support division of a global IT player during my receent years in business.

In the meanntime I am retired, have lots of time and could easily spend a siggnificant amouunt of it on WB!

Let me know, whhether I can be of any help!

Armin